Traditional Cuban music, the State Department, and a party trick: Montuno Sampling (Vocal Sampling)
Listen to the song
- YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qz-5NDMYcrE
- Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/track/7aVCFiwe5TipJ6tToCvIWl?si=7bef5111b9724a73
- Apple Music - https://music.apple.com/us/song/montuno-sampling/1290453682
- Amazon - https://music.amazon.com/albums/B075ZQDWXY?marketplaceId=ATVPDKIKX0DER&musicTerritory=US&ref=dm_sh_rJMToaKnfUs5sq7C4vPAqkLeA&trackAsin=B075ZPWNYY
Other links
- Playlist of the songs we’ve reviewed
- YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5bn23baJ4xQ1t0TMqukELY5W95HwuMoT
- Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/playlist/7gCOF5M0zYS1fBvXgT5ccI?si=7F3yVdEDRRWa_gAArK3AYg
Key takeaways
- Trist and Elaine discuss “Montuno Sampling,” a 1995 track from Cuban a cappella group Vocal Sampling. This group mimics Latin percussion instruments using only their voices, creating an authentic and rhythmic sound that mirrors traditional Cuban music styles like "son" and salsa
- Elaine and Trist dig into the vocal blend and rhythmic patterns, which reflect Vocal Sampling’s deep connection to Cuban musical heritage, showcasing the tonal and rhythmic nuances of Latin music that are distinct from North American traditions
- In the Mailbag segment, Trist and Elaine dig into the rise of AI in the music industry, emphasizing the importance of human creativity and emotional connection in music-making, which cannot be replicated by algorithms
- Note: this episode also has a special bonus episode, which has the full Mailbag segment for those who are interested in the deeper conversation about our relationship to technology and how technology changes how we value analog experiences
About us
Trist Curless is a Los Angeles-based vocalist, educator, and sound engineer. As a performer, Trist has toured worldwide as a co-founder of the pop-jazz vocal group m-pact and a 10 year member of the Grammy-award winning The Manhattan Transfer. In addition to these two vocal powerhouse groups, he’s also performed with Take 6, Bobby McFerrin, New York Voices, Vox Audio, Naturally 7, and The Swingle Singers. His latest venture, The LHR Project, is a new vocal group collective celebrating legendary jazz vocal group Lambert, Hendricks, and Ross.
As an audio engineer, Trist has toured nationally with several vocal groups and bands in a large variety of venues, working for Grammy award winners Pentatonix and Take 6, as well as prominent a cappella vocal groups Straight No Chaser, VoicePlay, and Accent.
Elaine Chao, M.Ed is a San Francisco Bay Area-based vocalist, multi-instrumentalist, vocal percussionist, and songwriter whose career spans a cappella, contemporary worship, and classical music. She has leveraged her training in classical and choral music over the course of her contemporary performance, including in orchestras for musical theatre and in sacred spaces. In addition to music, she also is a martial artist and published author. She currently leads a product management team at a major software company dedicated to creative expression. All statements in this podcast are her own and do not reflect the opinions of her employer.
Transcript
Elaine: Hey, Trist!
Speaker:Elaine: What do we have this week?
Speaker:Trist: Oh, we've got a good one this week.
Speaker:Trist: We've got a Latin percussion ensemble from Cuba.
Speaker:Elaine: Okay.
Speaker:Trist: Um, and the thing about this
Speaker:Trist: percussion ensemble is that they
Speaker:Trist: don't use any percussion
Speaker:Trist: instruments.
Speaker:Elaine: Okay. Tell me a little bit more
Speaker:Trist: Well,
Speaker:Elaine: about this.
Speaker:Trist: it's a little bit of a trick
Speaker:Trist: there in that it's an a cappella
Speaker:Trist: group.
Speaker:Trist: So no
Speaker:Elaine: Oh.
Speaker:Trist: instruments.
Speaker:Trist: These gentlemen from Cuba all went to music school and they
Speaker:Trist: studied music, and many of them know how to play different
Speaker:Trist: instruments and percussion of the music of Cuba.
Speaker:Trist: And they decided as a little
Speaker:Trist: game to form a group and sing
Speaker:Trist: lots of songs that are in the
Speaker:Trist: styles of the music they grew up
Speaker:Trist: with and they call themselves
Speaker:Trist: Vocal Sampling.
Speaker:Elaine: Oh, yeah.
Speaker:Elaine: They're classic.
Speaker:Elaine: I heard one of their songs as a part of a sampler that I got.
Speaker:Elaine: there was a CD that I had received some time in.
Speaker:Elaine: I don't know, the late nineties
Speaker:Elaine: or so that had a track from them
Speaker:Elaine: on it.
Speaker:Elaine: So, familiar with the group.
Speaker:Elaine: What are we listening to?
Speaker:Trist: This one is called Montuno Sampling.
Speaker:Trist: It's a bit of a calling card for the group.
Speaker:Elaine: Okay. Well, before we pause, can
Speaker:Elaine: you remind all of us how we
Speaker:Elaine: should be listening to music as
Speaker:Elaine: a member of The Musician's Loupe
Speaker:Elaine: community?
Speaker:Trist: Well, as always, we love having you listen to us whenever and
Speaker:Trist: wherever you choose to.
Speaker:Trist: So thank you so much for, hanging out with us.
Speaker:Trist: If you are able to take a moment
Speaker:Trist: and improve your listening
Speaker:Trist: situation in any way, do that
Speaker:Trist: now.
Speaker:Trist: Just take a moment and move to the better speakers or the
Speaker:Trist: better room or a little bit of quiet or the better headphones,
Speaker:Trist: whatever way you can improve your listening situation.
Speaker:Trist: That's just something we really love to try to do here.
Speaker:Trist: So do that if you can.
Speaker:Trist: If not, no worries.
Speaker:Trist: Keep on your run or your walk or your drive and, just stay with
Speaker:Trist: us and check out the song.
Speaker:Elaine: Okay, so with that we're going to take a pause.
Speaker:Elaine: We'll leave links to the song in our show notes.
Speaker:Elaine: So pause the stream, listen to
Speaker:Elaine: the song once, twice, three
Speaker:Elaine: times, more.
Speaker:Elaine: And we will be right back.
Speaker:Elaine: And we are back.
Speaker:Elaine: Holy cows.
Speaker:Elaine: That was amazing.
Speaker:Trist: Pretty cool, right?
Speaker:Elaine: Yeah. I'd love to understand why you chose this song.
Speaker:Trist: It's no secret the roots and the experiences in the a cappella
Speaker:Trist: idiom that we bring to this one.
Speaker:Trist: So I think we've purposely tried
Speaker:Trist: not to be just a bunch of a
Speaker:Trist: cappella songs that we deal
Speaker:Trist: with.
Speaker:Trist: And when we do, it's solo, like Bobby McFerrin or with some
Speaker:Trist: other legend, like Take 6 with Johnny Mathis, those are really
Speaker:Trist: our a cappella offerings so far.
Speaker:Trist: And we could do an entire podcast and it would be only
Speaker:Trist: those things, but I don't want to do that.
Speaker:Trist: I just thought this was really different enough.
Speaker:Trist: Wanted people to hear this.
Speaker:Trist: It's just so well recorded.
Speaker:Trist: They're so good at what they do.
Speaker:Trist: Even though I've heard this for a long time, I've seen them live
Speaker:Trist: and in person in concert.
Speaker:Trist: And it's still
Speaker:Elaine: Oh.
Speaker:Trist: kind of amazing, their ability to have the constant rhythm
Speaker:Trist: track – I use in air quotes – happening while they're singing
Speaker:Trist: all these parts.
Speaker:Trist: Obviously on this recording, as
Speaker:Trist: we've mentioned before, you can
Speaker:Trist: do anything.
Speaker:Trist: They could record all of those
Speaker:Trist: individual little percussion
Speaker:Trist: parts and then sing all the
Speaker:Trist: parts separately.
Speaker:Trist: And they probably did that because it's really clean and
Speaker:Trist: easy to mix, but live and in concert, I'm telling you, it
Speaker:Trist: sounds like that.
Speaker:Trist: It sounds
Speaker:Elaine: Oh,
Speaker:Trist: just
Speaker:Elaine: wow.
Speaker:Trist: like that.
Speaker:Trist: You're like, wait, where are the other people?
Speaker:Trist: Are they using a track?
Speaker:Trist: What's going on?
Speaker:Trist: Like we've talked about before, right away you're identifying,
Speaker:Trist: okay, wait, what is this about?
Speaker:Trist: Who's doing what?
Speaker:Trist: There's six of them.
Speaker:Trist: Who is singing?
Speaker:Trist: Okay, that's the lead.
Speaker:Trist: Oh, that's the bass.
Speaker:Trist: Wait, there's all these- So it's orchestrated much like a
Speaker:Trist: percussion ensemble where every individual little rhythm is its
Speaker:Trist: own thing and fairly simple and basic for one person to do.
Speaker:Trist: But when constructed together, it has this big rhythmic feel.
Speaker:Trist: So the writer arranger is writing a big rhythmic feel,
Speaker:Trist: more complex rhythmic pattern, but then separating it out into
Speaker:Trist: each wood block, clave, shaker, tambourine, whatever is needed.
Speaker:Trist: So, the last little tidbit I'll
Speaker:Trist: tell you about seeing them live
Speaker:Trist: was amazing.
Speaker:Trist: The clave, which of course is a
Speaker:Trist: physical, two pieces of wood
Speaker:Trist: that clank together to make a
Speaker:Trist: sound.
Speaker:Trist: Those are called clave, those pieces of wood.
Speaker:Trist: But the rhythm itself is called
Speaker:Trist: clave, either demonstrated with
Speaker:Trist: two versus three or three versus
Speaker:Trist: two.
Speaker:Trist: So either bop bop bop bop bop or bop bop bop bap bap.
Speaker:Trist: That's
Speaker:Elaine: Mhm.
Speaker:Trist: the basic rhythm of a lot of Latin music.
Speaker:Trist: That's kind of the backbeat, if you will.
Speaker:Trist: So
Speaker:Elaine: Right.
Speaker:Trist: it's like, is this a two three or a three two?
Speaker:Trist: And of course, there are a bunch of variations.
Speaker:Trist: And I just sounded like I knew a lot about that.
Speaker:Trist: And that's about the extent of it that I
Speaker:Elaine: Ha!
Speaker:Trist: really, really, truly
Speaker:Elaine: Okay.
Speaker:Trist: know.
Speaker:Trist: Anyway, because that's so apparent, I kind of thought, oh,
Speaker:Trist: well, they'll probably have someone playing clave.
Speaker:Trist: And what they did is one of the guys, I think he was a lot of
Speaker:Trist: times the lead singer, he would do it with his hands.
Speaker:Trist: So he would kind of cup one hand and hit it with the other.
Speaker:Trist: Like he made a little circle almost with his hand
Speaker:Elaine: Oh, yeah.
Speaker:Elaine: Yeah.
Speaker:Trist: like
Speaker:Elaine: Yeah. Like.
Speaker:Trist: a fist.
Speaker:Elaine: Mhm.
Speaker:Trist: And then the open part of the
Speaker:Trist: fist, kind of where his index
Speaker:Trist: finger and his thumb are, he
Speaker:Trist: would slap it with his hand and
Speaker:Trist: it made a little pop kind of
Speaker:Trist: sound, and it sounded kind of
Speaker:Trist: like that.
Speaker:Elaine: Mhm.
Speaker:Trist: And I've seen them twice in concert.
Speaker:Trist: The first time they had a little microphone on his mic stand that
Speaker:Trist: was right by there.
Speaker:Elaine: Oh!
Speaker:Trist: So they could mic it the little bop bop bop bop bop.
Speaker:Trist: The whole time, he's singing
Speaker:Trist: like a lead vocal, or he's doing
Speaker:Trist: another percussion
Speaker:Elaine: Yeah.
Speaker:Trist: part with his mouth, but he's
Speaker:Trist: keeping that rhythm the whole
Speaker:Trist: time.
Speaker:Trist: And then the second time I saw him, they had advanced a few
Speaker:Trist: years and he had a lavalier mic, so he was wireless.
Speaker:Trist: So had a little pack on his back by his in-ear monitors.
Speaker:Trist: And then the microphone cable ran all the way up his back,
Speaker:Trist: down his shoulder, down his arm, and was taped on his wrist.
Speaker:Elaine: Oh!
Speaker:Trist: So when he
Speaker:Elaine: Interesting.
Speaker:Trist: did that, so that way the sound
Speaker:Trist: engineer could make that sound
Speaker:Trist: exactly as loud as it needed to
Speaker:Trist: be
Speaker:Elaine: Oh.
Speaker:Trist: in in the mix.
Speaker:Trist: But the basic thing was they would sing their parts and then
Speaker:Trist: even in between singing, some kind of bop bop bop bop bop,
Speaker:Trist: there'd be a bop bop bop bop bop bop bop bop bop.
Speaker:Trist: I'm making something up, But
Speaker:Trist: there'd be like a bop, bop, bop
Speaker:Trist: to whatever.
Speaker:Trist: There'd be a rhythm, boom boom.
Speaker:Trist: Whatever.
Speaker:Trist: Those are none of the sounds on this album.
Speaker:Trist: It'd be something like that.
Speaker:Trist: Sometimes they'll integrate it into their vocal part where it's
Speaker:Trist: a very simple little thing, but all of them doing it has this
Speaker:Trist: cacophony of rhythm
Speaker:Elaine: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker:Trist: and sound, so it really did sound.
Speaker:Trist: Not to be cliche, it sounded
Speaker:Trist: "just like the album" in
Speaker:Trist: concert.
Speaker:Trist: It really did.
Speaker:Trist: Just amazing.
Speaker:Elaine: Yeah. One of the things that I found really interesting about
Speaker:Elaine: this track, and especially in a lot of Latin music, the rhythmic
Speaker:Elaine: instruments that they use are tonal, but they are not tuned to
Speaker:Elaine: the actual piece.
Speaker:Elaine: And so that off tuning and the consistent off tuning is what I
Speaker:Elaine: find interesting about what they're doing here, especially
Speaker:Elaine: the clave that you were talking about, because I heard that
Speaker:Elaine: clave and it was off tune the same way that I would normally
Speaker:Elaine: expect, like an instrumental off tune to be as well.
Speaker:Elaine: So it
Speaker:Trist: Right.
Speaker:Elaine: was amazing to me because I think as vocalists, a lot of
Speaker:Elaine: time we tend to snap to what is in tune and that we expect that
Speaker:Elaine: it is in tune.
Speaker:Elaine: And so hearing it out of tune and hearing it out of tune in a
Speaker:Elaine: way that is authentic to the original style of music was, for
Speaker:Elaine: me, that extra bit of delight.
Speaker:Trist: Yeah, I think that's probably the key is that because all of
Speaker:Trist: them have played in bands that play this music, so they know
Speaker:Trist: exactly what it sounds like.
Speaker:Trist: So they know that as the key of
Speaker:Trist: the song moves around, their
Speaker:Trist: shakers and clave don't change
Speaker:Trist: keys.
Speaker:Trist: They have a certain sound.
Speaker:Trist: And so I think they naturally do that instead of naturally tuned
Speaker:Trist: because it's in their musical heritage to have that sound.
Speaker:Trist: So it wouldn't even occur to
Speaker:Trist: them to try to make it be in
Speaker:Trist: tune.
Speaker:Trist: It would sound weirder to them.
Speaker:Trist: So it would be very natural for
Speaker:Trist: them to have it be this
Speaker:Trist: consistent pitch that often
Speaker:Trist: falls, maybe sometimes happens
Speaker:Trist: to fall in, but often falls
Speaker:Trist: outside of the key center that's
Speaker:Trist: happening otherwise.
Speaker:Elaine: So to follow up on that, I think that there are areas where I
Speaker:Elaine: heard tuning that was very specific to Latin music and
Speaker:Elaine: especially in the male voices.
Speaker:Elaine: So there were certain areas,
Speaker:Elaine: especially in the parts where it
Speaker:Elaine: was actually supposed to sound
Speaker:Elaine: like voices.
Speaker:Elaine: So the background voices, the
Speaker:Elaine: tuning of these specific voices
Speaker:Elaine: for me, not just because they
Speaker:Elaine: were singing in Spanish, but
Speaker:Elaine: they really sounded like a lot
Speaker:Elaine: of the different Central
Speaker:Elaine: American, Caribbean, South
Speaker:Elaine: American vocals that you will
Speaker:Elaine: hear and the blend that they
Speaker:Elaine: have, which I think is different
Speaker:Elaine: than the blend that we hear out
Speaker:Elaine: of traditional choral music, or
Speaker:Elaine: even some of the gospel music
Speaker:Elaine: that we've been listening to as
Speaker:Elaine: well.
Speaker:Elaine: Each of those has a certain blend of voices that we kind of
Speaker:Elaine: expect, and the blend of these male voices really brought to
Speaker:Elaine: mind the kind of harmonies that I expect to hear out of this
Speaker:Elaine: region as well.
Speaker:Elaine: Is that something that you heard?
Speaker:Trist: Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker:Trist: I've often said, really for
Speaker:Trist: them, as much as it's just
Speaker:Trist: outside of our particular
Speaker:Trist: American heritage music
Speaker:Trist: tradition ears.
Speaker:Trist: This is much to them as an American group of six guys
Speaker:Trist: making a doo wop album.
Speaker:Trist: We don't have to think about how those chords happen.
Speaker:Trist: Who's voicing what.
Speaker:Trist: It's matter of fact for us.
Speaker:Trist: To me, this album as much as, of course it's air quotes foreign
Speaker:Trist: to my ear necessarily, I'm assuming to them, growing up in
Speaker:Trist: this culture, studying this music in university there, this
Speaker:Trist: isn't anything fancy at all.
Speaker:Trist: This is just a very matter of fact.
Speaker:Trist: That's why it sounds so
Speaker:Trist: authentic, because it is
Speaker:Trist: authentic.
Speaker:Trist: They know these kinds of songs.
Speaker:Trist: Even when they're writing original songs, they're in the
Speaker:Trist: vein and the style and the feel and the tonalities of the music
Speaker:Trist: they grew up with.
Speaker:Trist: It's from their region.
Speaker:Elaine: So the point I was trying to make about this was much more
Speaker:Elaine: along the lines of the different type of blend that we expect out
Speaker:Elaine: of different types of groups.
Speaker:Elaine: So even within American music
Speaker:Elaine: tradition, you have your
Speaker:Elaine: barbershop, for instance, you
Speaker:Elaine: have country, you have doo wop,
Speaker:Elaine: you have all of these different
Speaker:Elaine: vocal traditions that we have
Speaker:Elaine: here inside of the United
Speaker:Elaine: States, and each one sounds
Speaker:Elaine: slightly different.
Speaker:Elaine: I think part of it is the type of vowels that you use.
Speaker:Elaine: And so depending on what region you're from, you learn how to
Speaker:Elaine: speak in a very particular way.
Speaker:Elaine: And I think in this particular
Speaker:Elaine: way as well, there is a certain
Speaker:Elaine: type of blend that comes from
Speaker:Elaine: the way that people speak and
Speaker:Elaine: the way that people learn how to
Speaker:Elaine: sing.
Speaker:Elaine: To your point, I think that it is very cultural as well.
Speaker:Elaine: And this is just a point that I'm trying to make because I
Speaker:Elaine: hear something very familiar.
Speaker:Elaine: Also being steeped in a lot of
Speaker:Elaine: different types of, you know,
Speaker:Elaine: Central American, South American
Speaker:Elaine: music, where growing up in the
Speaker:Elaine: San Francisco Bay area, you're
Speaker:Elaine: just kind of surrounded by this
Speaker:Elaine: music, right?
Speaker:Trist: Right.
Speaker:Elaine: So I think for me, it sounds
Speaker:Elaine: very familiar, but what I was
Speaker:Elaine: trying to comment on is the tone
Speaker:Elaine: of the voices and the blend that
Speaker:Elaine: is very specific to the style of
Speaker:Elaine: music is different than the
Speaker:Elaine: styles of music that we might be
Speaker:Elaine: more familiar with in a North
Speaker:Elaine: American context, singing in
Speaker:Elaine: English.
Speaker:Trist: Very true.
Speaker:Elaine: So let's change topics a little bit.
Speaker:Elaine: One of the things that I really wanted to think about were the
Speaker:Elaine: lyrics, which were in Spanish.
Speaker:Elaine: It
Speaker:Trist: Right.
Speaker:Elaine: is a super cute song.
Speaker:Elaine: And the reason I say that is that it seems to me like it's an
Speaker:Elaine: introductory song where it goes through every single person
Speaker:Elaine: inside of the group and talks about what things that they do,
Speaker:Elaine: the kinds of things that I have heard in some pieces of groups
Speaker:Elaine: that I know here singing in English, where basically they
Speaker:Elaine: reference each one of the band members and the things that they
Speaker:Elaine: do and give them an opportunity to shine as well.
Speaker:Elaine: Can you talk a little bit about the role of that type of piece
Speaker:Elaine: inside of a repertoire?
Speaker:Trist: Well, I will let you know just how much you nailed the
Speaker:Trist: translation of it, because not only did they add a translation,
Speaker:Trist: but at the beginning of every song here in the liner notes, it
Speaker:Trist: just tells you a little story.
Speaker:Trist: If there's an anecdote about it
Speaker:Trist: or there's a little bit written
Speaker:Trist: about it.
Speaker:Trist: And in this one, it says this "son" and s o n is how that's
Speaker:Trist: spelled "son," which is the which is the feel, that's what
Speaker:Trist: the music is.
Speaker:Trist: It's not a salsa or merengue.
Speaker:Trist: It's a "son."
Speaker:Trist: This "son" serves as our calling card.
Speaker:Trist: It introduces the members of the group and shows which
Speaker:Trist: instruments we play.
Speaker:Trist: There's an old fashioned Cuban proverb which says that when
Speaker:Trist: something is good, the wind cannot carry it away.
Speaker:Trist: How about that?
Speaker:Trist: So, yeah, you were spot on.
Speaker:Trist: That's exactly the thing.
Speaker:Trist: Serves as their calling card.
Speaker:Trist: So yeah, as an opening song on the opening album that they put
Speaker:Trist: out and just as a fun way to introduce the band in the show,
Speaker:Trist: sometimes a group will just have, oh, here's the band intro
Speaker:Trist: and sometimes literally it gives everyone a break from music and
Speaker:Trist: everyone either introduces themselves or every band member
Speaker:Trist: introduces a different band member, or the lead singer
Speaker:Trist: introduces everyone in the band, and sometimes they'll get a
Speaker:Trist: little more cutesy with it and have a little introductory song,
Speaker:Trist: whether they have a little groove they like to play or they
Speaker:Trist: have their favorite little cover, and they use it as a bed
Speaker:Trist: to be the song that they play while they introduce each other.
Speaker:Trist: And sometimes they work out a whole thing into the song.
Speaker:Trist: Of course, very much playing to
Speaker:Trist: the a cappella presentation
Speaker:Trist: here, they do exactly that, kind
Speaker:Trist: of talking about here are all
Speaker:Trist: the members of the group, and it
Speaker:Trist: goes through each one and the
Speaker:Trist: instruments that they air
Speaker:Trist: quotes, play.
Speaker:Trist: So yeah, you're right on.
Speaker:Trist: It's a cool original song, but
Speaker:Trist: introduces everyone to the
Speaker:Trist: group.
Speaker:Elaine: In talking about their history, it references, hey, you know, we
Speaker:Elaine: started in 1989.
Speaker:Elaine: This particular song was recorded and released in 1995.
Speaker:Elaine: So at this point in time, they'd obviously been together for
Speaker:Elaine: quite some time.
Speaker:Trist: Different anecdotes I remember them saying and then is a lot of
Speaker:Trist: their press materials, lots of bios that you hear about them is
Speaker:Trist: when they were at university, and almost like a party trick,
Speaker:Trist: like if they were all out at the same party, they could imitate
Speaker:Trist: with their voices some of the music they'd played.
Speaker:Trist: I'm totally, of course speculating, but I'd imagine,
Speaker:Trist: you know, oh, you guys are all in that band in school.
Speaker:Trist: It's too bad here at the party, we can't have the full band all
Speaker:Trist: set up, you know?
Speaker:Trist: Oh, no, it goes like this or whatever.
Speaker:Trist: Eventually, it was like a little party trick that they had, but
Speaker:Trist: then they were being told and realizing themselves that it was
Speaker:Trist: actually a pretty cool thing.
Speaker:Trist: And, people weren't really believing that it was just them
Speaker:Trist: when they would hear it, they were kind of amazed by the
Speaker:Trist: sounds they could come up with and how full it could all be.
Speaker:Trist: So yeah.
Speaker:Elaine: Yeah. I was wondering what does montuno stand for?
Speaker:Elaine: Because it wasn't a familiar term for me.
Speaker:Elaine: And I looked it up.
Speaker:Elaine: Montuno means of the mountains.
Speaker:Elaine: But it's also the foundational rhythm of salsa or probably of
Speaker:Elaine: "son" in this case, because "son" is a predecessor or an
Speaker:Elaine: ancestor of salsa.
Speaker:Elaine: So I just thought it was interesting that they refer to
Speaker:Elaine: themselves as Sampling repeatedly inside of the song.
Speaker:Elaine: So this is Montuno Sampling.
Speaker:Elaine: So I thought that was super cute.
Speaker:Trist: And often time the piano player and or the bass player, if you
Speaker:Trist: tell them it's like, oh, no, it's a montuno.
Speaker:Trist: There's certain rhythms that the left hand will play or both
Speaker:Trist: hands will play, but definitely the left and or the bass.
Speaker:Trist: If there is a bass player, they understand what that means.
Speaker:Trist: Generally, it's not playing the downbeats.
Speaker:Trist: It's usually playing just off of the downbeats.
Speaker:Elaine: Yeah, it is really interesting also for me to think about.
Speaker:Elaine: So as we wrap up this section, I
Speaker:Elaine: really want to think about the
Speaker:Elaine: relationship that we have to
Speaker:Elaine: Cuban music in general and just
Speaker:Elaine: the influence that it's had in
Speaker:Elaine: American music.
Speaker:Elaine: And a big part of that, I think, also has to do with the history
Speaker:Elaine: of Cuba and the historical relationship between the United
Speaker:Elaine: States and Cuba.
Speaker:Elaine: Going back to, you know,
Speaker:Elaine: prohibition times, you're
Speaker:Elaine: talking the 1920s, I was reading
Speaker:Elaine: that Havana was a pretty big
Speaker:Elaine: destination.
Speaker:Elaine: The relationship between Cuba and the United States was so
Speaker:Elaine: big, like tourism was such a big thing at that point in time.
Speaker:Elaine: And then in our lifetimes,
Speaker:Elaine: thinking about the strained
Speaker:Elaine: relationship that these two
Speaker:Elaine: countries have, the closing of
Speaker:Elaine: the borders, the way that a lot
Speaker:Elaine: of people fled from Cuba and
Speaker:Elaine: settled inside of the United
Speaker:Elaine: States.
Speaker:Elaine: And what that diaspora had to
Speaker:Elaine: contribute, thinking about the
Speaker:Elaine: relationship with jazz and
Speaker:Elaine: thinking about how deeply Cuban
Speaker:Elaine: music was integrated with jazz
Speaker:Elaine: music.
Speaker:Elaine: So I was reading how Dizzy Gillespie integrated Cuban
Speaker:Elaine: musicians inside of his act and the influence that they had in
Speaker:Elaine: his work as well.
Speaker:Elaine: Can you talk a little bit more about that?
Speaker:Trist: Oh well yeah.
Speaker:Trist: The contributions by Dizzy going in there and there are many
Speaker:Trist: Cuban artists who have had a big role and big influence in jazz.
Speaker:Trist: The story I did want to tell you that related to being closed off
Speaker:Trist: from the States was that first time that I did hear them.
Speaker:Trist: One of the a cappella summits
Speaker:Trist: that would happen in San
Speaker:Trist: Francisco, kind of opposite time
Speaker:Trist: of the year from when the
Speaker:Trist: Harmony Sweepstakes competition
Speaker:Trist: would be.
Speaker:Trist: You know, big concert
Speaker:Trist: celebration of a cappella
Speaker:Trist: groups.
Speaker:Trist: And it'd be kind of a little bit of everyone who's who.
Speaker:Trist: This particular show is probably
Speaker:Trist: 97ish and featured Rockapella
Speaker:Trist: kind of at the height of their
Speaker:Trist: powers.
Speaker:Trist: A newly signed to a record label House Jacks hosted the show.
Speaker:Trist: And The Swingle Singers were on that show.
Speaker:Trist: And this group from Cuba, Vocal Sampling.
Speaker:Trist: So what I found really
Speaker:Trist: interesting is very much at
Speaker:Trist: these kinds of shows, during the
Speaker:Trist: day, there are some, meet the
Speaker:Trist: artist sessions and some things
Speaker:Trist: like that.
Speaker:Trist: And usually the main guest artists, unless they're the ones
Speaker:Trist: that are answering questions or giving some kind of talk or
Speaker:Trist: topic, usually not to be found.
Speaker:Trist: They're chilling out, waiting for their night to perform and
Speaker:Trist: waiting for their sound check, etc.. But what I loved was the
Speaker:Trist: unknown quantity of Vocal Sampling that most of us that
Speaker:Trist: are into it had heard this album and it was amazing.
Speaker:Trist: But again, as we've mentioned,
Speaker:Trist: you can kind of do anything on
Speaker:Trist: an album.
Speaker:Trist: What does this sound like live?
Speaker:Trist: And nobody had heard them in person.
Speaker:Trist: It's not like, oh yeah, they get to my part of the country a lot.
Speaker:Trist: They just hadn't come to the country at all.
Speaker:Trist: Matter of fact, I'm pretty sure that up to like, even the week
Speaker:Trist: before, the organizers weren't even sure they were going to be
Speaker:Trist: allowed to appear.
Speaker:Trist: This is how long ago it was: a cappella fans flooded the State
Speaker:Trist: Department with faxes just to make sure that they made their
Speaker:Trist: appearance and to say how important and how innocuous this
Speaker:Trist: appearance would be.
Speaker:Elaine: Wow.
Speaker:Trist: And sure enough, they were there.
Speaker:Trist: And so, noon or whatever there was just to Meet the Artist in
Speaker:Trist: this room and it was packed.
Speaker:Trist: And along the walls, I'm seeing all the members of all the quote
Speaker:Trist: unquote, important groups that were performing that night.
Speaker:Trist: Everyone was there like, no, no,
Speaker:Trist: no, we're not going to miss
Speaker:Trist: this.
Speaker:Trist: Like this doesn't come to our country at all, let alone right
Speaker:Trist: here at the same festival as us.
Speaker:Trist: We need to check this out.
Speaker:Trist: And I remember from the first 30s just the whole place
Speaker:Trist: absolutely in awe.
Speaker:Trist: Just everyone like, whoa, like I said, this sounds like that
Speaker:Trist: record they made.
Speaker:Trist: Holy
Speaker:Elaine: Ya.
Speaker:Trist: cow.
Speaker:Trist: How are they doing-?
Speaker:Trist: And so I'll never forget that.
Speaker:Trist: And of course, the concert that night was amazing.
Speaker:Trist: But even in that more specific, where it's not a lot of time to
Speaker:Trist: soundcheck, not a lots of bells and whistles, just turn on some
Speaker:Trist: mics, sing a couple of things, they had a translator that kind
Speaker:Trist: of spoke for them.
Speaker:Trist: And when they were telling their story about how they started.
Speaker:Trist: And that's one of those that
Speaker:Trist: I'll never forget, just the vibe
Speaker:Trist: of the whole room, knowing we're
Speaker:Trist: at a special event that may
Speaker:Trist: never happen again in the
Speaker:Trist: States.
Speaker:Trist: I don't know how much more they ever played.
Speaker:Trist: And the show that night,
Speaker:Trist: actually, the thing that I
Speaker:Trist: remember is with all that vocal
Speaker:Trist: percussion stuff, all the Latin
Speaker:Trist: percussion stuff, their second
Speaker:Trist: to last tune, right in that
Speaker:Trist: ballad spot.
Speaker:Trist: They did indeed do this beautiful ballad with no kind of
Speaker:Trist: rhythmic stuff in it at all.
Speaker:Trist: And it was just like, oh, they
Speaker:Trist: don't need the trickery of all
Speaker:Trist: that stuff.
Speaker:Trist: They can do it.
Speaker:Trist: They could just do a whole show
Speaker:Trist: of jazz ballads if they wanted
Speaker:Trist: to.
Speaker:Trist: It was amazing.
Speaker:Trist: It was great.
Speaker:Elaine: What a special memory.
Speaker:Elaine: Thanks for
Speaker:Trist: Yeah,
Speaker:Elaine: sharing that
Speaker:Trist: yeah.
Speaker:Elaine: I totally.
Speaker:Trist: It was.
Speaker:Elaine: This was way before my time and so it's great to hear just how
Speaker:Elaine: special it was and that you had an opportunity to see them.
Speaker:Elaine: So anything else that you want to share before we move on?
Speaker:Trist: No, but if you like it at all,
Speaker:Trist: check out anything else from
Speaker:Trist: them.
Speaker:Trist: All the rest of that album and
Speaker:Trist: their subsequent albums are also
Speaker:Trist: stellar.
Speaker:Elaine: Awesome.
Speaker:Elaine: And so with that, we're going to move on to.
Speaker:Trist: Mailbag.
Speaker:Elaine: That's right. The Mailbag.
Speaker:Elaine: And you can get ahold of us via email at themusiciansloupe, that
Speaker:Elaine: is l o u p e at gmail.com, or you can contact us via Instagram
Speaker:Elaine: or Threads @themusiciansloupe.
Speaker:Trist: And that's a great opportunity for you to tell us, maybe if you
Speaker:Trist: happened to see Vocal Sampling at some point in your life or a
Speaker:Trist: group that is like them or your first a cappella group like that
Speaker:Trist: where you were just watching them and most of the show, you
Speaker:Trist: were just freaking out because you couldn't believe they were
Speaker:Trist: doing all of that.
Speaker:Trist: Or any other questions you might have related to this or how you
Speaker:Trist: find their music or just any other comments you might have,
Speaker:Trist: please send them there.
Speaker:Elaine: Awesome.
Speaker:Elaine: So this week's mailbag is from Threads.
Speaker:Elaine: It's from an account called
Speaker:Elaine: @msinstrumental, M-S
Speaker:Elaine: instrumental from December of
Speaker:Elaine: 2025.
Speaker:Elaine: And it says: "Hi musicians, please don't let the rise of AI
Speaker:Elaine: usage in music discourage you from singing, rapping,
Speaker:Elaine: songwriting, producing, practicing, performing,
Speaker:Elaine: creating, experimenting, or just trying in general.
Speaker:Elaine: FYI, this isn't an anti AI post.
Speaker:Elaine: I'm pro-technology and pro-innovation.
Speaker:Elaine: Just saying if you genuinely
Speaker:Elaine: enjoy making music, please keep
Speaker:Elaine: making it.
Speaker:Elaine: Immerse yourself in discovery
Speaker:Elaine: and into the process of
Speaker:Elaine: creation.
Speaker:Elaine: There are still so many people who'd enjoy hearing or
Speaker:Elaine: experiencing your art.
Speaker:Elaine: And there's
Speaker:Trist: Hm.
Speaker:Elaine: a couple of emoji afterwards.
Speaker:Elaine: We haven't talked as much about the rise of AI, even though
Speaker:Elaine: everyone is talking about it right now and the impact of AI
Speaker:Elaine: in the music industry.
Speaker:Elaine: I'd love to hear a little bit of
Speaker:Elaine: your thoughts, especially when
Speaker:Elaine: it comes in response to this
Speaker:Elaine: particular person's
Speaker:Elaine: encouragement to continue to
Speaker:Elaine: make music, even in more analog
Speaker:Elaine: ways, or perhaps especially in
Speaker:Elaine: analog ways.
Speaker:Trist: I'm in agreement with that particular Thread.
Speaker:Trist: And I think it's a bit different and a little too simplistic, but
Speaker:Trist: I'll use it anyway.
Speaker:Trist: Things that I've often heard in these conversations, at some
Speaker:Trist: point the drum machine was going to ruin music.
Speaker:Trist: At some point, multitrack
Speaker:Trist: recording was going to ruin
Speaker:Trist: music.
Speaker:Trist: At some point, just the Beatles'
Speaker:Trist: existence was going to ruin
Speaker:Trist: music.
Speaker:Trist: So we go through history and there's always the "this is
Speaker:Trist: going to ruin music."
Speaker:Trist: I'm definitely a glass half full guy, but the optimist in me
Speaker:Trist: believes in the humans maybe less and less every day, but I
Speaker:Trist: still do believe in them.
Speaker:Trist: And that the originality that comes from us, the algorithms
Speaker:Trist: and the AI stuff pulls from stuff that exists already,
Speaker:Trist: doesn't usually create, although I'm sure that's coming.
Speaker:Trist: It doesn't create necessarily in
Speaker:Trist: a way that humans would and do
Speaker:Trist: odd things that maybe even other
Speaker:Trist: humans wouldn't do, let alone a
Speaker:Trist: program.
Speaker:Trist: So I guess that's part of my hope.
Speaker:Trist: and again, much like, "Oh no, the drum machine is going to
Speaker:Trist: be-" Well, they didn't put drummers out of business.
Speaker:Trist: They became an important part of a lot of different music.
Speaker:Trist: But, you just had to shift and
Speaker:Trist: there's been some great things
Speaker:Trist: that have happened because of
Speaker:Trist: them.
Speaker:Trist: So I guess that's just my only
Speaker:Trist: hope is that really creative
Speaker:Trist: people can use like they've
Speaker:Trist: always used.
Speaker:Trist: Same with synthesizers.
Speaker:Trist: Oh my goodness, "synthesizers are going to ruin music."
Speaker:Trist: So yeah, I guess I'm in agreement.
Speaker:Trist: I get that way too.
Speaker:Trist: Even just.
Speaker:Trist: "Why write a song when this other thing exists that's
Speaker:Trist: writing all these great songs, you don't need any more from me,
Speaker:Trist: or why do your own whatever when this other stuff is so great?"
Speaker:Trist: And so it's easy to get bogged down in that.
Speaker:Trist: And now it's "Well, why try to work my tail off to create this
Speaker:Trist: thing when some people can just feed a couple things into some
Speaker:Trist: AI and it'll spit out something better than I could ever do?"
Speaker:Trist: That's just not true.
Speaker:Trist: It doesn't have your heart.
Speaker:Trist: It doesn't have your innovation,
Speaker:Trist: your thoughts, your feelings,
Speaker:Trist: that somebody needs or wants to
Speaker:Trist: hear.
Speaker:Trist: So I think that hopefully should forever be a thing that is
Speaker:Trist: needed, humans communicating with others through art.
Speaker:Elaine: Yeah, I love that you put it that way because I think I
Speaker:Elaine: resonate with that in the way that I think about a
Speaker:Elaine: relationship with technology.
Speaker:Elaine: And there are two different examples that I have in mind.
Speaker:Elaine: One of them is social media and I see a pendulum swing that is
Speaker:Elaine: happening in culture.
Speaker:Elaine: Twenty years ago, social media was brand brand new.
Speaker:Elaine: It had a lot of opportunities for us to connect with people.
Speaker:Elaine: But more and more today, I see a
Speaker:Elaine: generation of people just
Speaker:Elaine: stepping away from social media
Speaker:Elaine: and prioritizing in-person
Speaker:Elaine: relationship and in-person
Speaker:Elaine: conversation, really biasing
Speaker:Elaine: towards stepping away from this
Speaker:Elaine: digital connectedness into an
Speaker:Elaine: in-person connectedness.
Speaker:Elaine: And I see that we value that more because the digital
Speaker:Elaine: connectedness is so cheap.
Speaker:Elaine: And here's another example.
Speaker:Elaine: Some people may know this, but I'm a fiber crafter.
Speaker:Elaine: And so that means that I knit and crochet.
Speaker:Elaine: So in a world of mass manufacturing where someone can
Speaker:Elaine: get a sweater just off the rack for twenty bucks.
Speaker:Elaine: Now I can go out and buy something and I can give it to a
Speaker:Elaine: friend, but if I knit something for them and give it to them, it
Speaker:Elaine: inherently has more value.
Speaker:Elaine: It has more value because I have created this thing.
Speaker:Elaine: I've put in the time.
Speaker:Elaine: I've brought my own craftsmanship.
Speaker:Elaine: And so I think that there is an
Speaker:Elaine: opportunity for us to think
Speaker:Elaine: about in a world where digital
Speaker:Elaine: tools are making it so much
Speaker:Elaine: easier and more accessible, how
Speaker:Elaine: much more are we going to value
Speaker:Elaine: the actual skills that go into
Speaker:Elaine: it?
Speaker:Elaine: And so I really go back to the
Speaker:Elaine: whole mass manufacturing thing
Speaker:Elaine: of clothing.
Speaker:Elaine: And I just think about how much joy I bring whenever I make a
Speaker:Elaine: baby item for a friend.
Speaker:Elaine: And they are absolutely blown
Speaker:Elaine: away when they receive something
Speaker:Elaine: that is handcrafted, whether
Speaker:Elaine: it's a quilt or it's a sweater
Speaker:Elaine: or it's a blanket or something
Speaker:Elaine: like that.
Speaker:Elaine: It is something that is
Speaker:Elaine: incredibly meaningful for them,
Speaker:Elaine: and I think reinforces our
Speaker:Elaine: relationship in a way that
Speaker:Elaine: buying something off the rack
Speaker:Elaine: would not, no matter how much I
Speaker:Elaine: spent.
Speaker:Trist: Absolutely.
Speaker:Elaine: One other thing that I'm
Speaker:Elaine: thinking about right now is the
Speaker:Elaine: relationship that we have to
Speaker:Elaine: live music as opposed to
Speaker:Elaine: recorded music.
Speaker:Elaine: We both have experiences listening to music with other
Speaker:Elaine: people as a social thing.
Speaker:Elaine: And live music also fits into that social experience.
Speaker:Trist: Well, caveat being I live in Los Angeles, so it's very easy for
Speaker:Trist: me to say, oh, go experience live music as much as possible.
Speaker:Trist: There's more here than I could ever even get to.
Speaker:Trist: I've noticed I've really tried to focus on doing that.
Speaker:Trist: I try to go to one or two performances from the LA Phil.
Speaker:Trist: The Walt Disney concert hall is just an acoustic marvel.
Speaker:Trist: So hearing these great works of music in this beautiful space
Speaker:Trist: and just hearing it amazingly well and getting to experience
Speaker:Trist: it live and see those 60 to 100 humans doing this together and
Speaker:Trist: creating this one sound is just really, really moving.
Speaker:Elaine: So any last thoughts before we move on?
Speaker:Trist: That's it.
Speaker:Elaine: Okay. And so with that, we have
Speaker:Elaine: a big, big request of all of
Speaker:Elaine: you.
Speaker:Elaine: If you enjoyed this episode or any of the other ones that we
Speaker:Elaine: have released, Please, please, please share it with a friend.
Speaker:Elaine: We are always looking for more listeners.
Speaker:Elaine: We're looking to grow our
Speaker:Elaine: listener base, and we know that
Speaker:Elaine: you as music lovers, will know
Speaker:Elaine: the right people to share it
Speaker:Elaine: with.
Speaker:Trist: And even check out.
Speaker:Trist: We're going to be making playlists on all the platforms
Speaker:Trist: that we have provided links on.
Speaker:Trist: And so you can share even the whole playlist.
Speaker:Trist: Hey, here's this podcast I listen to.
Speaker:Trist: Here's a list of the songs.
Speaker:Trist: If you see one that you want to check out, then you can come
Speaker:Trist: back to the podcast and see what we have to say about it.
Speaker:Trist: Let us know!
Speaker:Trist: Thanks for listening, everyone.
Speaker:Elaine: Awesome.
Speaker:Elaine: See you all next week.
Speaker:Trist: And, as every a cappella group
Speaker:Trist: mentions at some point, it's
Speaker:Trist: nice to not have to schlep
Speaker:Trist: everything around.
Speaker:Trist: And then when you do it really professionally, you end up
Speaker:Trist: schlepping a bunch of stuff around, just to pay you back for
Speaker:Trist: having said that.
Speaker:Elaine: I also figured out that I
Speaker:Elaine: actually use that phrase a lot
Speaker:Elaine: too.
Speaker:Trist: Celebration. Come on.
Speaker:Trist: Do do do
Speaker:Elaine: All
Speaker:Trist: do
Speaker:Elaine: right.
Speaker:Trist: do like
Speaker:Elaine: Yeah,
Speaker:Trist: whatever.
Speaker:Elaine: yeah.
